PDA

View Full Version : Buying another camera



Yaso
09-07-2012, 04:24 PM
Hey guys,

after watching Phil Bloom's review of the Blackmagic Cinema Camera, I think I'm going to switch to buying another camera instead. It's taking too much time while I need a camera to work with and honestly, the emotional investment is too much for me at the moment :D. BMCC might be for a rental somewhere in 2013.

For now, let's assume I need a camera that is light and versatile, to shoot corporate videos and narrative work. But for my style, I'm basically shooting the way I want the film/video to look later on. I'm not a color grader and I'm not relying on it. There will be little color correction and I'm not doing greenscreen work for the most part.

So what do you think of this camera set:

Canon 5d Mark II – 1.750,01 EUR

Canon EF 20mm USM 2.8 (72mm filter screw) – 451,88
Canon EF 50mm USM 1.2 (72mm filter screw) – 1.419,23
Canon EF 85mm USM 1.2 (72mm filter screw) – 2.028,94
Canon EF 135mm USM 2.0 (72mm filter screw) – 998,99

Manfrotto 503HDV Pro Fluid with quick release plate & Manfrotto 055XPROB Tripod Pro – 518,20 EUR
Manfrotto Tripod Bag 80CM – 66,07 EUR

Tiffen Filter 72mm ND 0.6 – 66,98 EUR
Tiffen Filter 72mm ND 0.3 – 63,89 EUR
Tiffen Filter 72mm ND 0.9 – 57,98 EUR

Naneu Elite Sahara camera bag – 93,98 EUR

2x Canon Camera battery LP-E76 (LI-ION) – 123,16 EUR
2x Sandisk Extreme Compact Flash Card 16 GB – 204,54 EUR


That adds up to 7837,85 EUR. Am I missing something essential?

chinesefoodeater3
09-07-2012, 04:37 PM
Looks good! i'm not really a fan of the canon 20mm 2.8 I used it on a job about a month ago and wasn't that impressed. the samyang 24mm 1.4 is a pretty nice alternative!

Yaso
09-07-2012, 04:38 PM
Hey, chinesefoodeater,

such a shame -- it's the only thing I already bought :D

chinesefoodeater3
09-07-2012, 07:30 PM
ahh, good luck! I used the lens for a couple shots and didn't really get the wow factor. Could be because on that shoot I was using the 50mm 1.2 for the first time and got blown away by that lol.

David
09-07-2012, 10:07 PM
You are missing a very important piece for the 5 Mark II and thats the VAF-5D2 filter. That is my biggest recommendation for the 5D Mark II.
You may want to look at the 100mm 2.8L Macro as an alternative to the 135mm. I find it to be a more versatile lens even though you're loosing a touch of light but the 2.8L is tack sharp Zeiss like even wide open.
Audio?

Yaso
09-08-2012, 07:44 AM
You are missing a very important piece for the 5 Mark II and thats the VAF-5D2 filter. That is my biggest recommendation for the 5D Mark II.
You may want to look at the 100mm 2.8L Macro as an alternative to the 135mm. I find it to be a more versatile lens even though you're loosing a touch of light but the 2.8L is tack sharp Zeiss like even wide open.
Audio?

Thanks for your addition. I watched a few videos and this Filter looks really good. The only question is: Where can I buy one now?

What about the Canon EF 100mm 2.0?

Frank Glencairn
09-08-2012, 11:07 AM
Actually I would go for a used FS100 instead of a 5D - way better bang for the buck.

Frank

Yaso
09-08-2012, 04:10 PM
Actually I would go for a used FS100 instead of a 5D - way better bang for the buck.

Frank

It's still pretty expensive, right? What do you think of the XF100?

Fluoro
09-08-2012, 05:52 PM
It's still pretty expensive, right?

But you're spending a heap on glass...

In fact without knowing what gear you already have it's really hard to give advice.

A variable ND is probably more essential than buying expensive glass. And how good's your tripod?

If I had 8K to spend, ALL UP for a kit I'd be buying a GH2. 8K is not a lot. Might be good to think about buying old nikkors or FD glass instead of expensive EF glass and put the difference in cost towards a Heliopan variable filter...

I'm just throwing thoughts out there. So what kit do you already own?

morgan_moore
09-08-2012, 06:12 PM
To me that glass is a waste of cash.

1.8, 2 or 1.4 versions are all you need.

And there are so many reasons to get FS100/C100, intstead

Or save and get an Nex5n or 7 or Gh2

GH2 optimised lens set will work better for BMC rental/Future purchase.

S

mbeck
09-08-2012, 06:59 PM
Actually I would go for a used FS100 instead of a 5D - way better bang for the buck.

Frank

Yeah, I had an FS100 before this camera was announce and loved it! I would absolutely pick up a used FS100 before I would go back to DSLR.

Yaso
09-11-2012, 10:44 AM
Yeah, I had an FS100 before this camera was announce and loved it! I would absolutely pick up a used FS100 before I would go back to DSLR.

I've seen the footage that comes from the FS100 and although it is good, the camera in my opinion is not worth the price. A used one maybe, but I didn't find a good offer anywhere ;).

That and I already invested in Canon. So far I own Canon 7d, Canon EF 50mm 1.8, Canon EF 20mm 2.8, Velbon DV-7000 Tripod, Rode VideoMic and a H4N Zoom.

morgan_moore
09-11-2012, 12:32 PM
Not really bought into the system is it? One two lenses that fits a Fs100 anyway.

If you ever need the cam as a tool for work, XLR, long roll times, efficient codec the FS100 will pay off in a week over a canon .. IMO

S

randyman
09-11-2012, 12:48 PM
I still have a hard time understanding why a lack of XLR connectors seems to have as much significance as it does for some. The balanced 1/4" jacks are identical as far as the signal is concerned, smaller (allowing for a smaller camera chassis), and easily accessed with inexpensive, simple adapters. You can use right angle connectors, which will project less from the camera body than XLRs would.

I'm a pro audio guy from decades back, and it's clear to me that there is no loss of functionality, and it makes sense from a design point of view. My only sorrow is the lack of phantom power, which is another issue. Are adapters really that big a deal?

rawCAM35
09-11-2012, 01:21 PM
I still have a hard time understanding why a lack of XLR connectors seems to have as much significance as it does for some. The balanced 1/4" jacks are identical as far as the signal is concerned, smaller (allowing for a smaller camera chassis), and easily accessed with inexpensive, simple adapters. You can use right angle connectors, which will project less from the camera body than XLRs would.

I'm a pro audio guy from decades back, and it's clear to me that there is no loss of functionality, and it makes sense from a design point of view. My only sorrow is the lack of phantom power, which is another issue. Are adapters really that big a deal?

I am with you, the 1/4" plug/jack is only dated back to 1878 and still in use up to this date, it is used when no space available to have an XLR, but some people still are not getting it, so many pro audio equipment populated with 1/4" jacks because of space limitations.
It is not hard to make an adapter, we use adapters on daily bases on everything, audio video data and power.

DSLRs with unbalanced mini audio jack ??????

Dan Pears
09-11-2012, 07:06 PM
I still have a hard time understanding why a lack of XLR connectors seems to have as much significance as it does for some. The balanced 1/4" jacks are identical as far as the signal is concerned, smaller (allowing for a smaller camera chassis), and easily accessed with inexpensive, simple adapters. You can use right angle connectors, which will project less from the camera body than XLRs would.

I'm a pro audio guy from decades back, and it's clear to me that there is no loss of functionality, and it makes sense from a design point of view. My only sorrow is the lack of phantom power, which is another issue. Are adapters really that big a deal?

I'm not an audio person, but I assume the desire for XLR is the capability for providing phantom power?

rawCAM35
09-11-2012, 07:15 PM
I'm not an audio person, but I assume the desire for XLR is the capability for providing phantom power?

You can add Phantom power to a rope, the 1/4" is a three wire no difference from XLR.

Dan Pears
09-11-2012, 07:33 PM
You can add Phantom power to a rope, the 1/4" is a three wire no difference from XLR.

Interesting, thanks!

Gwangjuboy
09-12-2012, 02:52 AM
I can't see from you needs now why you would possibly spend that much money on a 5d rig. Buy a gh2 and build up some lenses for the mft or just get the BMC as it is.

Jorge De Silva
09-12-2012, 04:20 AM
Or just move to this. Cheaper than a 5D mkII:

New Sony NEX-VG900 (full frame camcorder)

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/09/12/Sony-NEX-VG900-full-frame-camcorder-and-VG-30-APS-C-model-and-18-200-power-zoom-lens


This thing can steal a lot of sales from BMCC!

Grug
09-12-2012, 08:04 AM
Or just move to this. Cheaper than a 5D mkII:

New Sony NEX-VG900 (full frame camcorder)

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/09/12/Sony-NEX-VG900-full-frame-camcorder-and-VG-30-APS-C-model-and-18-200-power-zoom-lens


This thing can steal a lot of sales from BMCC!

According to the photoblographer (or whatever that website's called), it's got clean, uncompressed HDMI output too. So with an external recorder you can get 220Mbps 4:2:2 with a Vistavision-sized sensor(!)

It's a very interesting little handicam.

Jorge De Silva
09-12-2012, 08:44 AM
According to the photoblographer (or whatever that website's called), it's got clean, uncompressed HDMI output too. So with an external recorder you can get 220Mbps 4:2:2 with a Vistavision-sized sensor(!)

It's a very interesting little handicam.

Yup! Funny thing... you can buy a "BLACKMAGIC" Accessory to turn this camera in a way better one! The HyperDeck Shuttle 2 :)
Good thing its to have both BMCC for day, and this one for night shots!

rawCAM35
09-12-2012, 11:04 AM
Or just move to this. Cheaper than a 5D mkII:
New Sony NEX-VG900 (full frame camcorder)
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/09/12/Sony-NEX-VG900-full-frame-camcorder-and-VG-30-APS-C-model-and-18-200-power-zoom-lens
This thing can steal a lot of sales from BMCC!


According to the photoblographer (or whatever that website's called), it's got clean, uncompressed HDMI output too. So with an external recorder you can get 220Mbps 4:2:2 with a Vistavision-sized sensor(!)
It's a very interesting little handicam.

BMD camera $ 3000.00
Internal recorder
raw
DNxHD
ProRez

Sony NEX-VG9000 Over 3000-euro
AVCHD format (24Mbps/s)
External recorder is needed to record higher quality than the internal recorder, $$$$$$$$$
No Avid codec
No Apple Codec

???

Jorge De Silva
09-12-2012, 11:55 AM
BMD camera $ 3000.00
Internal recorder
raw
DNxHD
ProRez

Sony NEX-VG9000 Over 3000-euro
AVCHD format (24Mbps/s)
External recorder is needed to record higher quality than the internal recorder, $$$$$$$$$
No Avid codec
No Apple Codec

???

LOL... You don't need to POINT nothing... or put in Yellow! I have good eyes to read! But you dont... you noticed that I wrote that WE NEED a external recording? We are talking about possibilities... this is one of a lot... Full Frame... great quality... slow motion (50/60P) and clean HDMi if you want great Umcompressed/Prores or DNXHD recording output... ?
I Love BMCC camera, but... even so... it lacks a lot of things.. ! There are no perfect cameras... !

Jorge De Silva
09-12-2012, 11:59 AM
And to clarify ( I'm not the one with the same conclusions!): http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?1114-Opinions-on-Sony-nex-vg900

Andrew
09-12-2012, 12:07 PM
I doubt sony has said, but is the hdmi only 8-bit?

Jorge De Silva
09-12-2012, 12:18 PM
I doubt sony has said, but is the hdmi only 8-bit?

Good Question. Gonna try to know that, in the official PDF. But again... the FS100 HDMi output recorded to Prores looks very good! Let's see...

barant
09-14-2012, 11:11 PM
BMD camera $ 3000.00
Internal recorder
raw
DNxHD
ProRez

Sony NEX-VG9000 Over 3000-euro
AVCHD format (24Mbps/s)
External recorder is needed to record higher quality than the internal recorder, $$$$$$$$$
No Avid codec
No Apple Codec

???

BMCC camera is NOT DELIVERABLE now. SONY'S IS ON THE 27th.

rawCAM35
09-15-2012, 12:05 AM
BMCC camera is NOT DELIVERABLE now. SONY'S IS ON THE 27th.

So does this $59.99 Aiptek HD-1 HD Camcorder (iHD31K) with 90MB Internal Storage - Black , it is deliverable now

http://www.target.com/p/aiptek-hd-1-hd-camcorder-ihd31k-with-90mb-internal-storage-black/-/A-13056908#?lnk=sc_qi_detailbutton

barant
09-15-2012, 12:15 AM
So does this $59.99 Aiptek HD-1 HD Camcorder (iHD31K) with 90MB Internal Storage - Black , it is deliverable now

http://www.target.com/p/aiptek-hd-1-hd-camcorder-ihd31k-with-90mb-internal-storage-black/-/A-13056908#?lnk=sc_qi_detailbutton

Fanboy alert!

David
09-15-2012, 12:39 AM
So does this $59.99 Aiptek HD-1 HD Camcorder (iHD31K) with 90MB Internal Storage - Black , it is deliverable now

http://www.target.com/p/aiptek-hd-1-hd-camcorder-ihd31k-with-90mb-internal-storage-black/-/A-13056908#?lnk=sc_qi_detailbutton

Nice form factor on that cam.

Liam
09-15-2012, 03:14 AM
Or just move to this. Cheaper than a 5D mkII:

New Sony NEX-VG900 (full frame camcorder)

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/09/12/Sony-NEX-VG900-full-frame-camcorder-and-VG-30-APS-C-model-and-18-200-power-zoom-lens


This thing can steal a lot of sales from BMCC!

How is that at all cheaper than a 5dMark2?

Fluoro
09-15-2012, 07:24 AM
How is that at all cheaper than a 5dMark2?

He prob meant mark III.

Yaso
09-15-2012, 07:43 AM
Although it's capable of 4:2:2, it only records 28 Mb/s in AVCHD and probably still has a lot of rolling shutter.
Two weaknesses are granted, three are too much. At this price point. :D

Why is there no camcorder recording 50 Mb/s in MPEG-2 4:2:2 with a full frame sensor and reduced rolling shutter for 3000 Euro? :D

Jorge De Silva
09-15-2012, 08:38 AM
He prob meant mark III.

Yup... MKIII sorry :)

Kingswell
09-16-2012, 12:30 AM
Maybe have a look at the Nikon D600 which is being released on Tuesday. Full frame with uncompressed HDMI. It costs around 2000 euros. You'd could also get some nice cheaper Nikon Ai-s glass which can be used on pretty every other camera.

Paul Flack
09-16-2012, 08:48 PM
If the Nikon D600 or the Canon 6D were able to record and 50p/60p at 1080p they would be high on my list of considerable cameras right now.

But now I would only go with the GH3.

barant
09-17-2012, 12:27 AM
I think im going to order a d600 tomorrow.

Grug
09-17-2012, 09:31 PM
BMD camera $ 3000.00
Internal recorder
raw
DNxHD
ProRez

Sony NEX-VG9000 Over 3000-euro
AVCHD format (24Mbps/s)
External recorder is needed to record higher quality than the internal recorder, $$$$$$$$$
No Avid codec
No Apple Codec

???

VISTAVISION-sized sensor...

Yaso
09-18-2012, 06:59 AM
Appearantly, the D600 is below average in low light situations.

ward
09-18-2012, 08:05 AM
Clicked 1080P and watched the latest Spike Lee trailer, shot entirely on a F3, looking good. Still keeping my BMC order though.

http://www.redhooksummer.com/

Gwangjuboy
09-18-2012, 09:13 AM
Mods can this thread be put in off topic or better still just moved to DVX user where it belongs. The title of this forum should be a big clue, apparently it's not for some.

rawCAM35
09-18-2012, 09:53 AM
VISTAVISION-sized sensor...

Here is a larger than VISTAVISION Sensor for you

1089

Yaso
09-22-2012, 07:52 PM
Alright guys, so I bought the 5D Mark II and I'm holding it my hands right now. The decision was rather easy, because if you think about it, the Blackmagic Cinema Camera still has a lot of issues the this camera already had. Namely moire, aliasing, rolling shutter. Is it really worth the wait or is it just hyped beyond belief? Only time will tell. I'm also not a colorist and I don't plan on becoming one. Raw is nice for grading, but I like to shoot my images close to how they will look like in the finished product. The addition of 1000 Euro worth of software only does one thing, it makes the package more expensive for me.

So there's a new camera in my possession now. Okay, I cannot shoot RAW with it. Okay, the codec is shitty and the color information leaves much to be desired. But I recieved the package two days after ordering it. Furthermore, I know how to shoot on the camera, since I shot on a 7D before and I can use the lenses I already own. And if I chose to upgrade in the future ... I can get a C100, C300, BMC, RED SCARLET with EF Mount ... whatever. More options for me. Yay!

I was close to ordering the Canon XF100. It has a really nice codec (MPEG-2 50mbit 4:2:2 in 1080p). The bokeeh looks different, but interesting to me. Due to the small sensor, it's harder to shoot scenes with a shallow depth of field, but that wouldn't have been much of an issue for me either. You can get your shots right, if you know how. It doesn't have exchangeable lenses though and ultimately, the price point put me off ...

Yaso
11-14-2012, 05:03 PM
Guys, I bought me a BeachTek DXA-SLR Pro now, to be able to meter and record sound directly into the camera. The form factor is great, there are several nobs and I can use the product with all kinds of other cameras. I'm going to plug in the Rode NTG-2.

I'm trying to build a rig right now that I can use with the BMCC in the future. What do you think of the Swedish Chameleon Rigs? The SC3:Tiny can appearantly be upgraded step by step and it is comparibly cheap.